Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter

Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter

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RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

Byker28i said:
He has no one to blame but himself.
Your rhetoric is tired and cliché.

Anyone should be free to criticize the actions of an activist group or individual on face value regardless of what their nationality or religion is.

The ADL is first and foremost an Israel-advocacy organization. Since the 70's it's used its 'civil rights organisation' as a screen for pretty flagrantly right wing politics on Israel. This includes smearing anyone who dared ciritise Israeli policy as anti-Semites, including, and especially the left wing Jewish community. It was a defender of the US governments policies that included spying on Muslim communities within the US post 9/11.

The ADL is, in rhetoric and in practice, an anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian outfit. Frequently smearing Palestine-solidarity and Jewish anti-Zionist activists as being “in the same category” as the neo-Nazis who marched in Charlottesville or shot up the Tree of Life synagogue.

So the irony in them being deeply entrenched in schools and universities around the US, deploying anti-bias and anti-Semitic education programs to children whilst themselves being hugely racist themselves is the very definition of irony.

Their ability to swing media dialogue has been quite something to watch. White supremacists obviously being the greatest threat to America being the prevailing topic on most channels. Which is nonsense really, it's a narrative that has been pushed out, one that sows division and hatred. But certainly not backed by statistics or reality.

This chart is showing 'hate crimes' over the last decade in the states. The chart below that is when the Hilary Clinton aligned super pac run by the founder of Media Matters started plowing it's mucky trade of seeing media narrative in an attempt to derail the Trump presidential campaign. Where's the outcry for violence against Blacks? Surely that should be the prevailing topic if everyone is looking at the same data? Why is no one talking about the anti-white attacks that are taking place?





rscott

14,463 posts

186 months

RichTT said:
Byker28i said:
He has no one to blame but himself.
Your rhetoric is tired and cliché.

Anyone should be free to criticize the actions of an activist group or individual on face value regardless of what their nationality or religion is.

The ADL is first and foremost an Israel-advocacy organization. Since the 70's it's used its 'civil rights organisation' as a screen for pretty flagrantly right wing politics on Israel. This includes smearing anyone who dared ciritise Israeli policy as anti-Semites, including, and especially the left wing Jewish community. It was a defender of the US governments policies that included spying on Muslim communities within the US post 9/11.

The ADL is, in rhetoric and in practice, an anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian outfit. Frequently smearing Palestine-solidarity and Jewish anti-Zionist activists as being “in the same category” as the neo-Nazis who marched in Charlottesville or shot up the Tree of Life synagogue.

So the irony in them being deeply entrenched in schools and universities around the US, deploying anti-bias and anti-Semitic education programs to children whilst themselves being hugely racist themselves is the very definition of irony.

Their ability to swing media dialogue has been quite something to watch. White supremacists obviously being the greatest threat to America being the prevailing topic on most channels. Which is nonsense really, it's a narrative that has been pushed out, one that sows division and hatred. But certainly not backed by statistics or reality.

This chart is showing 'hate crimes' over the last decade in the states. The chart below that is when the Hilary Clinton aligned super pac run by the founder of Media Matters started plowing it's mucky trade of seeing media narrative in an attempt to derail the Trump presidential campaign. Where's the outcry for violence against Blacks? Surely that should be the prevailing topic if everyone is looking at the same data? Why is no one talking about the anti-white attacks that are taking place?



Have you got similar charts showing how mentions of other hate crimes have changed in those publications over the same period?

Without that, your graph is about as useful as



dobbo_

13,995 posts

243 months

RichTT said:
This chart is showing 'hate crimes' over the last decade in the states. The chart below that is when the Hilary Clinton aligned super pac run by the founder of Media Matters started plowing it's mucky trade of seeing media narrative in an attempt to derail the Trump presidential campaign. Where's the outcry for violence against Blacks? Surely that should be the prevailing topic if everyone is looking at the same data? Why is no one talking about the anti-white attacks that are taking place?



Your rhetoric is tired and cliché. What else happened in 2016 that might have prompted a massive increase in hate crimes? Was it nasty lefty Hillary's super pac.... or could it have been something else.....


Byker28i

54,428 posts

212 months

dobbo_ said:
Your rhetoric is tired and cliché. What else happened in 2016 that might have prompted a massive increase in hate crimes? Was it nasty lefty Hillary's super pac.... or could it have been something else.....
RichTT - you're graphs really need to be aligned with the rise in domestic terrorism in the US under trump, the rise of racist attacks, etc
Weirdly there's a correlation as many felt trump was giving them permission to act out their violent attacks 'good people on both sides' etc.

durbster

9,914 posts

217 months

RichTT said:
dobbo_ said:
Guess what? Advertisers are allowed to see "almost zero" as too great a risk, and stop advertising! Crazy, free speech butts up against capitalism and Musk loses even more money.
Not sure what's worse, MMs spin, or your gullibility tbh.
Wouldn't the gullible person be the one who bases their entire argument on believing everything Elon Musk has said, even when it's contrary to the evidence and logic?

RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

rscott said:
Have you got similar charts showing how mentions of other hate crimes have changed in those publications over the same period?
Source: @DavidRozado

Yes, it's an across the board increase in outrage propaganda and divisive identity politics. Which is the point I'm making. It's not about hate crime reporting per say. Hate crime figures were actually decreasing across the board up until 2014. Hate crimes targeting Muslim Americans were up nearly 600 percent from 2014 to 2016 in the run up to the presidential campaign of Hillary/Trump.

The ADL frequently defended anti-Muslim messaging prior to, during and continued afterwards.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/pame...

Now, we can both argue back and forth about a chicken/egg situation. I firmly believe that the rise in divisive rhetoric in education and media has driven this increase in 'hate crimes', where I'm sure anyone could argue the opposite. That the coverage only came along because of an increase in incidents.





RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

durbster said:
Wouldn't the gullible person be the one who bases their entire argument on believing everything Elon Musk has said, even when it's contrary to the evidence and logic?
I believe him more than the mouthpiece agency founded by someone who has openly admitted to manipulating media and data to meet political means outside of any ethical considerations.

captain_cynic

11,000 posts

90 months

Byker28i said:
RichTT - you're graphs really need to be aligned with the rise in domestic terrorism in the US under trump, the rise of racist attacks, etc
Weirdly there's a correlation as many felt trump was giving them permission to act out their violent attacks 'good people on both sides' etc.
Hosted on a photo sharing site... Pretty sure the graphs are entirely made up.

RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

Byker28i said:
RichTT - you're graphs really need to be aligned with the rise in domestic terrorism in the US under trump, the rise of racist attacks, etc
Weirdly there's a correlation as many felt trump was giving them permission to act out their violent attacks 'good people on both sides' etc.
"Despite reports of elevated extreme-right activity in the U.S. around the election of President Donald Trump, data reveal nine deaths in eight homicides in 2017. Though average, this figure represents a 100 percent increase from 2016; the same increase was observed during President Barack Obama’s first year in office. "

Some interesting conclusions as well. Mirroring what I've been saying all along about divisive identity politics and anti-white / Christian / hetero rhetoric is the cause.

"We must not lose sight that only a relatively small portion of extreme-rightists ever turn to violence. "

" [sic] it is not only perceived threats to a salient group identity that leads to extreme violence, but defensive violence is more likely when an offender’s personal identity is strongly fused with group identity. "

"Identity fusion theory could help to explain why relatively few extreme-rightists elevate to the level of commitment required to perpetrate violence, and why some offenders are triggered to commit violence by both personal and social attacks"

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26544642?seq=4

The psychology of extreme violence is an interesting field with no definitive answers. Trumps rise to power predicated on the average working class white, Christian, hetero male (and female tbh) having been dumped on, sidelined, and dismissed for years in the name of multiculturalism, DEI, positive discrimination, affirmative action and reverse racism. So of course some of that same contingent would feel emboldened by someone they thought was fighting for the same thing they wanted.

My appeal to authority on this matter:

"What ‘multiculturalism’ boils down to is that you can praise any culture in the world except Western culture – and you cannot blame any culture in the world except Western culture." Thomas Sowell

RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

captain_cynic said:
Hosted on a photo sharing site... Pretty sure the graphs are entirely made up.
RichTT said:
Source: @DavidRozado
At least try to read the post first.

https://twitter.com/DavidRozado

durbster

9,914 posts

217 months

RichTT said:
durbster said:
Wouldn't the gullible person be the one who bases their entire argument on believing everything Elon Musk has said, even when it's contrary to the evidence and logic?
I believe him more than the mouthpiece agency founded by someone who has openly admitted to manipulating media and data to meet political means outside of any ethical considerations.
It's not a binary situation you know; you don't have to pick a side. You are allowed to consider that both sides might be lying or misleading you.

But if you are prepared to believe whatever Musk says based on nothing more than who he's directing his comments at, it sounds very gullible to me.

rscott

14,463 posts

186 months

RichTT said:
durbster said:
Wouldn't the gullible person be the one who bases their entire argument on believing everything Elon Musk has said, even when it's contrary to the evidence and logic?
I believe him more than the mouthpiece agency founded by someone who has openly admitted to manipulating media and data to meet political means outside of any ethical considerations.
You seem to accept the word of Elon without question, despite the fact he's made a huge number of false statements on Twitter - from delivery dates and functionality of Tesla products through the claims about the cave rescuers.

X's content analysis systems and moderation processes don't work properly at the moment - the Auschwitz Museum account regularly post about their experiences reporting Holocaust denying posts from accounts with names based on the phrase "gas the Jews"
Those reports often get a response that they haven't broken the terms of service.
That suggests the automated content identification tools are failing - so it's a not unreasonable assumption they're misidentifying content and displaying the wrong adverts.

RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

durbster said:
It's not a binary situation you know; you don't have to pick a side. You are allowed to consider that both sides might be lying or misleading you.

But if you are prepared to believe whatever Musk says based on nothing more than who he's directing his comments at, it sounds very gullible to me.
I am inclined to not believe the party that has both a political and personal reasoning for a vendetta against Musk. But as you say, until X produces the data and shows how it was manipulated to produce a narrative that was then weaponised against the platform, I have to take him at his word. Fully accept that if he doesn't deliver it will be disappointing.

rscott said:
You seem to accept the word of Elon without question, despite the fact he's made a huge number of false statements on Twitter - from delivery dates and functionality of Tesla products through the claims about the cave rescuers.
Missing a delivery date or over promising on a product is not even in the same league as this. The cave rescuers drama was a monumentally stupid gaff though I will admit. Don't know what he was thinking.

rscott said:
X's content analysis systems and moderation processes don't work properly at the moment - the Auschwitz Museum account regularly post about their experiences reporting Holocaust denying posts from accounts with names based on the phrase "gas the Jews"
Those reports often get a response that they haven't broken the terms of service.
That suggests the automated content identification tools are failing - so it's a not unreasonable assumption they're misidentifying content and displaying the wrong adverts.
pobodies nerfect as they say.

X ToS is pretty clear. While they try their best, there is usually 500 million "tweets" posted per day.

"You understand that by using the Services, you may be exposed to Content that might be offensive, harmful, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate, or in some cases, postings that have been mislabeled or are otherwise deceptive. All Content is the sole responsibility of the person who originated such Content. We may not monitor or control the Content posted via the Services and, we cannot take responsibility for such Content."

Now, you can either have a service that works flawlessly, but is a broken business model requiring heavy censorship to attract all the best advertisers (as it was) or, you can pivot, cut staff dramatically, accept losses on advertisers whilst trying to create a balanced user experience and attractive advertising platform.

I think given the headwinds, he's done well. The content moderation is not flawless, but by the same token, in two years I don't think I have ever seen a single truly anti-semitic or white supremacist post as represented by MM. Like, not one. and believe me, I follow divisive people on both sides of the political spectrum. I can only go by my own experience, which I would say as a heavy user, is more exposed to content than an average scroller.




dobbo_

13,995 posts

243 months

Weeeellllllll anyway it seems we won't ever agree that serving adverts next to disgusting hate speech is a bad thing.

How about this instead?



Can we all agree this is bad? Advert served tens of thousands of times.


captain_cynic

11,000 posts

90 months

RichTT said:
captain_cynic said:
Hosted on a photo sharing site... Pretty sure the graphs are entirely made up.
RichTT said:
Source: @DavidRozado
At least try to read the post first.

https://twitter.com/DavidRozado
So he made them up.

You could have pretended you were smart enough to do it yourself, but I guess not.

RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

Hah,.plenty of crap adverts on their. Crypto, nfts, random temu Chinese nonsense. I had an advert for a calendar of dogs pooping in beautiful locations.

RichTT

2,867 posts

166 months

captain_cynic said:
So he made them up.

You could have pretended you were smart enough to do it yourself, but I guess not.
Are you deliberately obtuse or just... Not smart.

He's a data researcher.

https://davidrozado.substack.com/archive?sort=new

dobbo_

13,995 posts

243 months

RichTT said:
Hah,.plenty of crap adverts on their. Crypto, nfts, random temu Chinese nonsense. I had an advert for a calendar of dogs pooping in beautiful locations.
Haha yeah upload a photo of your daughter so someone can see her naked haha crap advert haha

Some Gump

12,520 posts

181 months

President Merkin said:
Eh? Internet browsers are woke now? I can't keep up.
NO, they just lean towards one direction. Some other poster wants Musk to make a browser (presumably that leans towards JLS).

Byker28i

54,428 posts

212 months

RichTT said:
[

I am inclined to not believe the party that has both a political and personal reasoning for a vendetta against Musk. But as you say, until X produces the data and shows how it was manipulated to produce a narrative that was then weaponised against the platform, I have to take him at his word. Fully accept that if he doesn't deliver it will be disappointing.
You were fully in this morning accusing people of fraud until challenged wen you walked back your comments, then accused others of being gullible.

Musk can't accept that he's responsible for losing advertisers, has been multiple times since he took over twitter