RE: 2023 INEOS Grenadier | PH Review
Discussion
Pflanzgarten said:
ducnick said:
Got to laugh at the RHD packaging problem on a brexit flag waving project though haven’t you. Maybe sir Jim spends so much time in Monaco or on his yacht that he forgot to tell the Austrians who build it, which side of the road we drive on in little Britain.
It's simply down to the exhaust position on the BMW engine.Pflanzgarten said:
skidskid said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Timely.
Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
Surely this means the whole point of the vehicle is gone? A car sold one being a utility tool that doesn't have the key business and company car advantages. Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
But to sell one as a commercial as they are doing?
It's nothing more than negotiating around the euro rules on emissions. Fine, who doesn't love someone getting around pointless rules?
But the sales teams are making out that business users can use one as they had done twin cab pick ups-it looks like you can't.
Plus in the UK as it's N1 class you need to do 50mph on country roads.
malaccamax said:
Pflanzgarten said:
skidskid said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Timely.
Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
Surely this means the whole point of the vehicle is gone? A car sold one being a utility tool that doesn't have the key business and company car advantages. Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
But to sell one as a commercial as they are doing?
It's nothing more than negotiating around the euro rules on emissions. Fine, who doesn't love someone getting around pointless rules?
But the sales teams are making out that business users can use one as they had done twin cab pick ups-it looks like you can't.
Plus in the UK as it's N1 class you need to do 50mph on country roads.
jhonn said:
Pflanzgarten said:
ducnick said:
Got to laugh at the RHD packaging problem on a brexit flag waving project though haven’t you. Maybe sir Jim spends so much time in Monaco or on his yacht that he forgot to tell the Austrians who build it, which side of the road we drive on in little Britain.
It's simply down to the exhaust position on the BMW engine.Honeywell said:
Not sure what all this Brexiteer angst is about. When asked a majority of folk actually were... plus the typical Greandier customer is likely to be an over 35 male with either a petrolhead or practical bent NOT some public sector university lecturing female or twenty something soiboi.
Therefore Net I'd think Jim Radcliffe's pro Brexit opinion is a positive for sales. Certainly is for me. .
Ah, I think I can help you out with this Honeywell, if you are suffering from Brexit derangement syndrome then any pro Brexit business person's new initiative must fail horribly!Therefore Net I'd think Jim Radcliffe's pro Brexit opinion is a positive for sales. Certainly is for me. .
It’s obviously too expensive to be any good to most farmers, in the UK at least, but I think we’d come to expect that. If it does what it says it does, it could have some appeal to off road hobbyists, but how big a market are they really?
No, if it’s going to succeed here, it needs to find a niche of lifestylers who like the image enough to pay new Defender money for something very compromised as a day-to-day car. I’m certain some of those people exist, but I will be interested to see how many.
No, if it’s going to succeed here, it needs to find a niche of lifestylers who like the image enough to pay new Defender money for something very compromised as a day-to-day car. I’m certain some of those people exist, but I will be interested to see how many.
I'm glad it exists. People seem quite happy to spend a lot more that £60k on a lot of other cars I don't see make a lot of sense, or are at least massively over-priced versions of some fairly mundane models. If they prove to be well built and demonstrate some above average reliability in engine and gearbox then why wouldn't it sell. A double cab pickup version I could see doing particularly well.
They have a global market to sell in to. Whether a handful of folk in Britain like it or done, probably doesn't matter a bit. It's not a car designed for a particularly domestic market, nor should it be. That would be the dumbest business decision to take.
Whether Ineos gets its money back really isn't my concern - good on them for digging deep and trying to do it properly.
If I were to replace my Discovery 4, would I choose one over a new Defender? Don't know, but I certainly would give it a fair hearing.
They have a global market to sell in to. Whether a handful of folk in Britain like it or done, probably doesn't matter a bit. It's not a car designed for a particularly domestic market, nor should it be. That would be the dumbest business decision to take.
Whether Ineos gets its money back really isn't my concern - good on them for digging deep and trying to do it properly.
If I were to replace my Discovery 4, would I choose one over a new Defender? Don't know, but I certainly would give it a fair hearing.
Honeywell said:
Not sure what all this Brexiteer angst is about. When asked a majority of folk actually were... plus the typical Greandier customer is likely to be an over 35 male with either a petrolhead or practical bent NOT some public sector university lecturing female or twenty something soiboi.
Guess what. Not all remainers were/are ‘public sector university lecturering females or twenty something soibois’ (whatever a soiboi is).That notwithstanding enjoy yours (but at least spell the model name right)
Den Den said:
Ah, I think I can help you out with this Honeywell, if you are suffering from Brexit derangement syndrome then any pro Brexit business person's new initiative must fail horribly!
Just somewhat amusing that someone who was so pro brexit has manufactured a car designed in Austria and built in France using German made engines, don't you think? Gave a Grenadier a look-over at the Revival last year with a friend who was quite serious about buying one. The intended area of ops was Devon and it was clear the Grenadier would struggle with many Devonian lanes owing to its size. Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't still buy one. And tbh, I quite liked its Tonka toy presence
Couple of weeks ago was at the Franschoek Car Museum in SA. They had one of the prototypes on display. Now that's were it looked like it was in its natural environment.
Couple of weeks ago was at the Franschoek Car Museum in SA. They had one of the prototypes on display. Now that's were it looked like it was in its natural environment.
This is actually a serious question, but can anyone explain to me what all the Brexit/Farage comments are about? Is this car not built in Austria with a German engine? I don't get it - what am I missing? (I'm not based in the UK by the way - we can only enjoy the Brexit spectacle from afar!).
Pflanzgarten said:
malaccamax said:
Pflanzgarten said:
skidskid said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Timely.
Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
Surely this means the whole point of the vehicle is gone? A car sold one being a utility tool that doesn't have the key business and company car advantages. Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
But to sell one as a commercial as they are doing?
It's nothing more than negotiating around the euro rules on emissions. Fine, who doesn't love someone getting around pointless rules?
But the sales teams are making out that business users can use one as they had done twin cab pick ups-it looks like you can't.
Plus in the UK as it's N1 class you need to do 50mph on country roads.
Honeywell said:
Not sure what all this Brexiteer angst is about. When asked a majority of folk actually were... plus the typical Greandier customer is likely to be an over 35 male with either a petrolhead or practical bent NOT some public sector university lecturing female or twenty something soiboi.
Therefore Net I'd think Jim Radcliffe's pro Brexit opinion is a positive for sales. Certainly is for me.
I can see this selling well enough to NGO's, government agencies, utility companies and the like, I can see it selling well for the well healed that but Twisted Landrovers, OverFinches or G-Wagons.
I think the aviation style switchgear is fantastic and a rather excellent USP but then I was madly excited when I finally got to fly aircraft with switches in the roof thirty years ago in the first place.
If they could land some decent size sales to military users the volumes could easily end up justifying the development costs. There's tens of thousands of Defenders in military use around the world and they ain't going to get replaced by G-wagons....
It's not going to be sold to NGOs as there's not the infrastructure around set-up, servicing and repair like the Land Cruiser/Hilux has. See this article about Toyota's Gibraltar operation;Therefore Net I'd think Jim Radcliffe's pro Brexit opinion is a positive for sales. Certainly is for me.
I can see this selling well enough to NGO's, government agencies, utility companies and the like, I can see it selling well for the well healed that but Twisted Landrovers, OverFinches or G-Wagons.
I think the aviation style switchgear is fantastic and a rather excellent USP but then I was madly excited when I finally got to fly aircraft with switches in the roof thirty years ago in the first place.
If they could land some decent size sales to military users the volumes could easily end up justifying the development costs. There's tens of thousands of Defenders in military use around the world and they ain't going to get replaced by G-wagons....
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/inside-...
Oh, and the military aren't going to buy them, not since the uptake in use of IEDs, they need something with a V shaped underside like the Jackal.
I wish it well, but can't see the market over a few wealthy individuals.
ChevronB19 said:
Honeywell said:
Not sure what all this Brexiteer angst is about. When asked a majority of folk actually were... plus the typical Greandier customer is likely to be an over 35 male with either a petrolhead or practical bent NOT some public sector university lecturing female or twenty something soiboi.
Guess what. Not all remainers were/are ‘public sector university lecturering females or twenty something soibois’ (whatever a soiboi is).That notwithstanding enjoy yours (but at least spell the model name right)
All that said, I like the product and wish it every success, think it strikes the right balance between classic styling and modern performance.
FWIW I wouldn't spend my money on it, as I'm not a Jim Ratcliffe fan (or a James Dyson fan) - not because they backed Brexit, which is a personal choice, but because they are hypocrites who banged on about the freedoms etc that Brexit would bring, then promptly left the UK for tax reasons. They should cop some flak for that. I don't think the car "has a whiff of Brexit" though - that's overstating it hugely and most people won't care, even if they know the back story.
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