The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)
Discussion
tuscaneer said:
Mate, it was proven he had nandralone in his system on the run up to the wlad fight..how it was kept under wraps I'll never know ... So are you saying that a positive drug test before a fight should just be ignored and the contest should go ahead?
Klitschko would undoubtedly have been using as well so it would have been a fair fight - I am not interested in the politics of who got caught and who didn't.jazzybees said:
I guess, I’m a Tyson Fury Fan.
He went overseas to Germany to beat Kiltschko for the world title.
On his return to the UK, ok he said some silly things, and got a lot of grief from the press/media.
He took a two year sabbatical/binge.
Gained a lot of weight.
Came back.
lost a lot of weight
Had two warm up fights.
Then fought and beat WBC heavyweight champion, Wilder, three times.
When no one wanted to fight Wilder.
Unbeaten.
And I think, no one can beat him.
Politics and AJ losing his titles, put a stop to that fight.
But now, in three months time,
He fights to unify all the titles.
No one can beat him .
Just a few reasons why I want him to win.
I will coment on the mental side of it, fury I think we atm least know is bi polar and anything he says can be taken with a pinch f salt. I don’t think he knows if he’s coming or going sometimes. He went overseas to Germany to beat Kiltschko for the world title.
On his return to the UK, ok he said some silly things, and got a lot of grief from the press/media.
He took a two year sabbatical/binge.
Gained a lot of weight.
Came back.
lost a lot of weight
Had two warm up fights.
Then fought and beat WBC heavyweight champion, Wilder, three times.
When no one wanted to fight Wilder.
Unbeaten.
And I think, no one can beat him.
Politics and AJ losing his titles, put a stop to that fight.
But now, in three months time,
He fights to unify all the titles.
No one can beat him .
Just a few reasons why I want him to win.
Edited by jazzybees on Sunday 19th November 10:00
AJ is all media training with a slipping crown lately, he knows who he is but his mask slips on different days and it’s slipping more and more these days.
272BHP said:
tuscaneer said:
Mate, it was proven he had nandralone in his system on the run up to the wlad fight..how it was kept under wraps I'll never know ... So are you saying that a positive drug test before a fight should just be ignored and the contest should go ahead?
Klitschko would undoubtedly have been using as well so it would have been a fair fight - I am not interested in the politics of who got caught and who didn't.So , for clarity.... A positive test ahead of a contest should be ignored and the fight be allowed to go ahead then? Really?!! Wow.. ok...
tuscaneer said:
jazzybees said:
I did say, he said a few silly things.
Perhaps I should have also added, he did a few silly things too.
he could be slightly tainted with the failed drug test.
Which he served his punishment.
And since then been clean, and passed all tests.
And I did say politics, and AJ losing his titles, stopped them from meeting up.
I wish they had fought, before AJ loss to Ruiz.
That was when AJ was at his best.
He certainly didn’t dodge wilder.
Fought him three times.
And won.
Well, one draw and 2 wins against wilder but I'm splitting hairs there.... I think you need to do your homework on the time periods involved in the nandralone detected in his system PRIOR to the Klitschko fight... And I won't get into his refusal to be tested on a different occasion too. a positive test before the wlad fight (which in my opinion should null and void the result anyway) then his shameful refusal to rematch him (him and the rest of the world knows full well what would have happened in the rematch) and his squirming out of various other fights including Joshua (not "politics") ..... Well, if that's not enough to throw tonnes of question marks over him without going further then fair enough ... 3 fights with deontay wilder does not make for a legend.... Joshua manned up and got straight in with usyk..... Look at the bPerhaps I should have also added, he did a few silly things too.
he could be slightly tainted with the failed drug test.
Which he served his punishment.
And since then been clean, and passed all tests.
And I did say politics, and AJ losing his titles, stopped them from meeting up.
I wish they had fought, before AJ loss to Ruiz.
That was when AJ was at his best.
He certainly didn’t dodge wilder.
Fought him three times.
And won.
Edited by jazzybees on Sunday 19th November 15:33
ks we've had out of fury to resist getting in the ring with the same guy.... I still won't believe Feb 17th will happen until the bell goes... He didn't fancy fighting Klitschko in the rematch after signing for it.... He found some very inventive excuses back then ... I'll be surprised if we don't get more over the next few monthsOk, the records do show, 2 wins and a draw, against Wilder.
Although I think he won the first fight,
Who do think won that first fight?
(And I think he was fighting at about 70% of his abilities, after the two year lay off).
Haha, and that’s why I think Wiilder agreed to fight fury, due to his two year lay off, and his two very weak comeback fights. He thought he would be an easy fight, the right time to fight fury. It was.
I don’t think and never said, the 3 fights against Wilder make him a legend or the greatest.
Although I don’t think any current boxer can beat fury.
I have done my homework on the time periods, of the drug in his system.
It was found 9 months before the klitschko fight.
When he was tested before his fight against Christian Hammer.
Ok, we the public, didn’t know that, at the time. Well I didn’t.
Fury said he didn’t know till 14 months after that test.
And that’s the fight that should have been null and void.
We going back a few years, where testing wasn’t as strict and advanced.
Politics or whatever you like to call it.
Allowed the Klitscho fight to still take place.
He must have been tested before that fight and passed.
I hate the fact they are drugs in the boxing game .
( ban them and the crazy excuses, tainted meat or eggs)
He did sign up for the rematch.
Even when it cost him the IBF belt, which they stripped off him, cos he wouldn’t fight their mandatory fighter.
(And we and the rest of the world certainly do not know how the rematch would have went)
all the politics, media attacks, mental strain took their toll, and he packed up for two years.
( klitscho went on to fight AJ for the titles, and lost)
I don’t know anything about his refusals to be tested.
I don’t think it’s been widely reported.
If that’s the case.
It should be like the athletes and football,
If unable to be tested , they should be banned.
I hate drugs in any sport.
I don’t think Fury squirmed out of fighting AJ
He fought Wilder . ( 3 times)
I don’t know what stopped the fight.
And I hope it will still happen.
I just put it down to politics and probably good ole bullspoo.
Yes l love AJ. He will man up and fight anyone, and does.
Love him To get the belts back.
Well time will tell.
Fury vs usyk.
Sign up for February.
Bring it on.
Anyway. That’s what makes the world go round.
We all have different opinions.
It be a boring place if we all thought the same.
Haha sorry about the long reply.
He refused to be tested in 2016.... I've watched all this unfold in real time and all I'll say is you need to Google the name "Usman sajjid" .... Well known name up here and he has a bent reputation for good reason.... I'm not going to get into a debate about it as it's pointless. If, in spite of everything that's happened, and everything he's done, you choose to still support a guy like that then fair enough fella.
tuscaneer said:
He refused to be tested in 2016.... I've watched all this unfold in real time and all I'll say is you need to Google the name "Usman sajjid" .... Well known name up here and he has a bent reputation for good reason.... I'm not going to get into a debate about it as it's pointless. If, in spite of everything that's happened, and everything he's done, you choose to still support a guy like that then fair enough fella.
But why just pick out Fury?You have supported loads of boxers on here Tusc over the years and I guarantee that most of them have been involved with dodgy doctors and trainers and pretty much all the top guys have used peds.
And for sure, most of the eastern europeans are on more sophisticated protocols as their doctors are just much more clued up on all this stuff.
Klitschko, Usyk, Bivol etc I would put my mortgage on all of them being on much more effective stuff than anything Fury's doctor can concoct.
272BHP said:
tuscaneer said:
He refused to be tested in 2016.... I've watched all this unfold in real time and all I'll say is you need to Google the name "Usman sajjid" .... Well known name up here and he has a bent reputation for good reason.... I'm not going to get into a debate about it as it's pointless. If, in spite of everything that's happened, and everything he's done, you choose to still support a guy like that then fair enough fella.
But why just pick out Fury?You have supported loads of boxers on here Tusc over the years and I guarantee that most of them have been involved with dodgy doctors and trainers and pretty much all the top guys have used peds.
And for sure, most of the eastern europeans are on more sophisticated protocols as their doctors are just much more clued up on all this stuff.
Klitschko, Usyk, Bivol etc I would put my mortgage on all of them being on much more effective stuff than anything Fury's doctor can concoct.
where do you draw the line? just let everyone take anything? or do you at least have organisations like VADA etc to keep it in check as much as possible?
we can only deal in absolutes, that's the best we can do in this miserable stinking sport.
272BHP said:
tuscaneer said:
He refused to be tested in 2016.... I've watched all this unfold in real time and all I'll say is you need to Google the name "Usman sajjid" .... Well known name up here and he has a bent reputation for good reason.... I'm not going to get into a debate about it as it's pointless. If, in spite of everything that's happened, and everything he's done, you choose to still support a guy like that then fair enough fella.
But why just pick out Fury?You have supported loads of boxers on here Tusc over the years and I guarantee that most of them have been involved with dodgy doctors and trainers and pretty much all the top guys have used peds.
And for sure, most of the eastern europeans are on more sophisticated protocols as their doctors are just much more clued up on all this stuff.
Klitschko, Usyk, Bivol etc I would put my mortgage on all of them being on much more effective stuff than anything Fury's doctor can concoct.
My inlaws pulled their son from the swimming programme in E. Ger when he came home from training with "vitamin supplements"
People know what they're doing.
I think ( can't be sure) that Parker & Tua were clean. I wouldn't bet my left testicle/ mortgage on anyone. Think Big George is legit.
I haven't trusted anyone in the Tour de France for longer than I've lived, some may have been clean ( & my distrust misplaced) Someone I know, knows someone who raced bikes - claims Lance was a cheat long before the admission. Turned out to be accurate. But I wouldn't claim Klitschko, Usyk, Bivol etc without evidence.
tuscaneer said:
He refused to be tested in 2016.... I've watched all this unfold in real time and all I'll say is you need to Google the name "Usman sajjid" .... Well known name up here and he has a bent reputation for good reason.... I'm not going to get into a debate about it as it's pointless. If, in spite of everything that's happened, and everything he's done, you choose to still support a guy like that then fair enough fella.
But why just pick out Fury?You have supported loads of boxers on here Tusc over the years and I guarantee that most of them have been involved with dodgy doctors and trainers and pretty much all the top guys have used peds.
And for sure, most of the eastern europeans are on more sophisticated protocols as their doctors are just much more clued up on all this stuff.
Klitschko, Usyk, Bivol etc I would put my mortgage on all of them being on much more effective stuff than anything Fury's doctor can concoct.
tuscaneer said:
Mate, it was proven he had nandralone in his system on the run up to the wlad fight..how it was kept under wraps I'll never know ... So are you saying that a positive drug test before a fight should just be ignored and the contest should go ahead?
I totally agree with you on that one.“How was it kept under wraps”
You never knew, I never knew, the public never knew.
Even Fury said he never knew till 14 months after the failed test.
( of course he could be telling porkies)
Politics (covers a lot) money, and bullpoo.
jazzybees said:
I totally agree with you on that one.
“How was it kept under wraps”
You never knew, I never knew, the public never knew.
Even Fury said he never knew till 14 months after the failed test.
( of course he could be telling porkies)
Politics (covers a lot) money, and bullpoo.
there's too many question marks for me... refusing to be tested just 9 months after the wlad fight speaks volumes too...“How was it kept under wraps”
You never knew, I never knew, the public never knew.
Even Fury said he never knew till 14 months after the failed test.
( of course he could be telling porkies)
Politics (covers a lot) money, and bullpoo.
tuscaneer said:
jazzybees said:
I totally agree with you on that one.
“How was it kept under wraps”
You never knew, I never knew, the public never knew.
Even Fury said he never knew till 14 months after the failed test.
( of course he could be telling porkies)
Politics (covers a lot) money, and bullpoo.
there's too many question marks for me... refusing to be tested just 9 months after the wlad fight speaks volumes too...“How was it kept under wraps”
You never knew, I never knew, the public never knew.
Even Fury said he never knew till 14 months after the failed test.
( of course he could be telling porkies)
Politics (covers a lot) money, and bullpoo.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxi...
And talking about Wlad, he was accused of using PEDs by Povetkin (ultimate irony). Apparently, Povetkin wanted random drug testing for their fight (both blood and urine) using WADA standards. Wlad refused - he insisted "NADA" testing was absolutely fine, as it required pre-scheduled urine tests only and no blood tests. The allegation made by Povetkin was this meant fast-acting PEDs or those with a short detection window wouldn't be detected.
Of course, that doesn't mean Wlad was using PEDs, but it does reveal something about the limited drug testing regime he was under for most of his professional career.
https://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-not-accept-p...
EddieSteadyGo said:
His brother (Vitali) Klitschko was caught taking steroids "for an old injury" when he was training for the Olympics. He only admitted it several years later and blamed a "rogue doctor" in Ukraine. Doesn't mean Wlad was using, but I can understand why people would have suspicions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxi...
And talking about Wlad, he was accused of using PEDs by Povetkin (ultimate irony). Apparently, Povetkin wanted random drug testing for their fight (both blood and urine) using WADA standards. Wlad refused - he insisted "NADA" testing was absolutely fine, as it required pre-scheduled urine tests only and no blood tests. The allegation made by Povetkin was this meant fast-acting PEDs or those with a short detection window wouldn't be detected.
Of course, that doesn't mean Wlad was using PEDs, but it does reveal something about the limited drug testing regime he was under for most of his professional career.
https://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-not-accept-p...
Yeah the vitali situation is talked about openly in the Klitschko documentary... The wlad/poverkin thing is different though ... Wlad wanted the German NADA testing, poverkin wanted the russian RUSADA agency to do it... I can see why wlad, the defending champion, didn't want to use a Russian drug testing agency against a Russian fighter.. in Moscow! NADA and RUSADA were both endorsed by WADA but I can see why Klitschko wouldn't give in to povetkinhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxi...
And talking about Wlad, he was accused of using PEDs by Povetkin (ultimate irony). Apparently, Povetkin wanted random drug testing for their fight (both blood and urine) using WADA standards. Wlad refused - he insisted "NADA" testing was absolutely fine, as it required pre-scheduled urine tests only and no blood tests. The allegation made by Povetkin was this meant fast-acting PEDs or those with a short detection window wouldn't be detected.
Of course, that doesn't mean Wlad was using PEDs, but it does reveal something about the limited drug testing regime he was under for most of his professional career.
https://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-not-accept-p...
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 20th November 16:03
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 20th November 16:05
tuscaneer said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
His brother (Vitali) Klitschko was caught taking steroids "for an old injury" when he was training for the Olympics. He only admitted it several years later and blamed a "rogue doctor" in Ukraine. Doesn't mean Wlad was using, but I can understand why people would have suspicions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxi...
And talking about Wlad, he was accused of using PEDs by Povetkin (ultimate irony). Apparently, Povetkin wanted random drug testing for their fight (both blood and urine) using WADA standards. Wlad refused - he insisted "NADA" testing was absolutely fine, as it required pre-scheduled urine tests only and no blood tests. The allegation made by Povetkin was this meant fast-acting PEDs or those with a short detection window wouldn't be detected.
Of course, that doesn't mean Wlad was using PEDs, but it does reveal something about the limited drug testing regime he was under for most of his professional career.
https://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-not-accept-p...
Yeah the vitali situation is talked about openly in the Klitschko documentary... The wlad/poverkin thing is different though ... Wlad wanted the German NADA testing, poverkin wanted the russian RUSADA agency to do it... I can see why wlad, the defending champion, didn't want to use a Russian drug testing agency against a Russian fighter.. in Moscow! NADA and RUSADA were both endorsed by WADA but I can see why Klitschko wouldn't give in to povetkinhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxi...
And talking about Wlad, he was accused of using PEDs by Povetkin (ultimate irony). Apparently, Povetkin wanted random drug testing for their fight (both blood and urine) using WADA standards. Wlad refused - he insisted "NADA" testing was absolutely fine, as it required pre-scheduled urine tests only and no blood tests. The allegation made by Povetkin was this meant fast-acting PEDs or those with a short detection window wouldn't be detected.
Of course, that doesn't mean Wlad was using PEDs, but it does reveal something about the limited drug testing regime he was under for most of his professional career.
https://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-not-accept-p...
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 20th November 16:03
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 20th November 16:05
I bet, something the general public not aware of.
You both seem very clued up on it all.
But what’s the general public supposed to do.
We still want to watch fights, between the best fighters.
We want to support our fave fighters.
And pray they don’t use any illegal drugs.
tuscaneer said:
Yeah the vitali situation is talked about openly in the Klitschko documentary... The wlad/poverkin thing is different though ... Wlad wanted the German NADA testing, poverkin wanted the russian RUSADA agency to do it... I can see why wlad, the defending champion, didn't want to use a Russian drug testing agency against a Russian fighter.. in Moscow! NADA and RUSADA were both endorsed by WADA but I can see why Klitschko wouldn't give in to povetkin
...
Yes, there was a nationalistic "Russia first" element to it, but I didn't realise until I checked the details that NADA was only using scheduled urine tests at the time, no random testing, and no blood testing (although I believe that has changed more recently). I'd be surprised if that type of regime would catch anyone who was familiar with the most basic of techniques to avoid detection. ...
EddieSteadyGo said:
tuscaneer said:
Yeah the vitali situation is talked about openly in the Klitschko documentary... The wlad/poverkin thing is different though ... Wlad wanted the German NADA testing, poverkin wanted the russian RUSADA agency to do it... I can see why wlad, the defending champion, didn't want to use a Russian drug testing agency against a Russian fighter.. in Moscow! NADA and RUSADA were both endorsed by WADA but I can see why Klitschko wouldn't give in to povetkin
...
Yes, there was a nationalistic "Russia first" element to it, but I didn't realise until I checked the details that NADA was only using scheduled urine tests at the time, no random testing, and no blood testing (although I believe that has changed more recently). I'd be surprised if that type of regime would catch anyone who was familiar with the most basic of techniques to avoid detection. ...
Again, none of us know anything other than absolutes.. and it is an absolute fact that wlad never tested positive for any banned substance nor did he refuse a test throughout his entire career.... Fury has both failed drug tests AND refused testing, and that's also an absolute fact.
And referencing the question earlier again, I'm not singling out fury, it's just the conversation has been specifically about him....
jazzybees said:
Thank you both for the information.
I bet, something the general public not aware of.
You both seem very clued up on it all.
But what’s the general public supposed to do.
We still want to watch fights, between the best fighters.
We want to support our fave fighters.
And pray they don’t use any illegal drugs.
My love of the sport has waned over recent years because of the drugs/fight ducking/ pantomime mouthing off etc etc.... I suppose all we can do as boxing fans is hope that it's marginalization as a sporting spectacle passes and we somehow end up back in a golden age sooner rather than laterI bet, something the general public not aware of.
You both seem very clued up on it all.
But what’s the general public supposed to do.
We still want to watch fights, between the best fighters.
We want to support our fave fighters.
And pray they don’t use any illegal drugs.
On the topic of drug cheats.... this is how to handle it ...Alycia Baumgardner (who tested positive earlier this year) has just released a statement announcing "Case Closed!"
Except, when you read the statement, she hasn't been cleared, the case isn't closed, and she has still given no explanation for the presence of steroids in her sample....it's delusional.....
https://twitter.com/alyciambaum/status/17266279155...
Except, when you read the statement, she hasn't been cleared, the case isn't closed, and she has still given no explanation for the presence of steroids in her sample....it's delusional.....
https://twitter.com/alyciambaum/status/17266279155...
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